Do Animals Have Souls? I Think I Know...

Jun 19 2008

Do Animals Have Souls? The Answer is…

Published by Steve N. Lee at 9:33 pm under animal rights, wildlife

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I’ve asked if animals have souls before, so why should I now think I have an answer?

Writing this post has been a tremendous struggle - I hated every second of it.

It’s not the post I started to write.
It’s not the post I ever dreamed I’d write.
And it’s certainly not the post I ever wanted to write.

So why write it?

To finish a story I started last week.

So if that and the title aren’t big enough clues, I have some bad news - Sarah, the crow we rescued, is dead.

Ania and I are absolutely devastated. We looked after her for only three full days but in that time -

we saw her character.
we saw her developing - learning how to drink, to eat.
we saw her loving life.

We’d have loved to keep her, but knew that was being totally selfish and that her best chance of survival and of living a full life as a wild bird was for us to give her up and take her to a bird sanctuary.

This we did.

Their specialist told us she was healthy and had a good chance of being released.

Just hours later, she was dead.

So what happened that a healthy crow suddenly died?

The sanctuary doesn’t know. They think it was delayed shock from some traumatic incident that happened before we found her, e.g. being harassed by a dog.

Maybe. Maybe not.

The problem is that to us Sarah was a marvel, a treasure, something to cherish for a lifetime

To them, it was just another bird.

Now we have the pain of thinking that if only we’d kept her she’d still be alive. And there’s nothing worse than ‘what if…?’ questions for gnawing away at you, relentlessly reminding you of how you’re to blame.

Of course, she’d have died a terrifying, bloody death from an attack by a fox or dog if we hadn’t found her. We gave her three extra days of life and love.

Consolation?

Yeah, right - the heartache is just melting away!

We learned of her death 10:10p.m. Monday night, in a reply to an email we’d sent asking how she was doing. You can guess how the rest of the night went.

The last thing I did that night was stroke the little box in the bathroom that she’d loved to perch on. Her favourite spot in her favourite room in the house. Only the side of the box was visible as, days ago, Ania had put a bag of insect repellent and sun cream on top that she’d bought for our holiday - the holiday that had led us to Sarah in the first place.

I don’t know why I stroked her box - I’m a down-to-earth, logical guy. (Ania says too logical.) But for some reason it let me feel close to her again - all the hours I’d spent sitting on the floor, watching her perched on that little box.

But the next morning something wonderful and weird happened.

7:40a.m., Ania had left for work and I was in the shower. Suddenly, there was a loud bang. At first, I thought Ania had come back and was rummaging for something. I called her, but there was no answer.

Dripping water everywhere, I stepped out of the shower. And that’s when I saw it!

The bag of sun cream had ‘dropped’ off Sarah’s box and knocked over some of Ania’s toiletries.

I was overwhelmed. The bag could not have ‘dropped’ anywhere. And it certainly wouldn’t have made such a loud noise even if it had. The answer was obvious…

Sarah had come home and rearranged things so she could sit in her favourite place.

And that’s the truth as far as I’m concerned.

Of course, cynics will say that’s utter crap and that the bag was somehow unbalanced and would have fallen some time because of some thing.

Well, such a lucid, logical argument, how could I not be convinced!?

After my last post about the possibility of animals having souls, people told me incredible tales of their spiritual experiences with the loved ones they’d lost.

So, back to the question - do animals have souls?

If anything else but that bag had fallen, there’d be nothing to talk about. But this was incredibly specific, with incredible timing.

Do animals have souls?
Sarah came home. Question answered.

In the past, I’ve tried to save birds that have been hit by cars, orphaned hedgehogs, field mice. That’s ‘tried’ to save…

But this time? This time Ania and I have made a real difference by giving life and a future to a creature that was all but dead. Seconds earlier or seconds later and we would never have found Sarah. Unless it was the next day - scattered feathers and a few bloody bones.

Who says good guys never win?” Saving Sarah. June 12th

How wrong can you be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhra4bKrniU

We’re so sorry, Sarah. We honestly thought we were doing what was best.

So go. See. Feel. Live.
Steve

P.S. Maybe Sarah hasn’t died in vain. Maybe she can save a life herself with the knowledge she’s passed to us: if ever you try to rear a baby bird be very careful what you feed it. Things like canned dog/cat food can kill it. As can bacon, liver, or cow’s milk. Different birds eat different things, so check. Suitable things for crows are minced red meat, boiled egg and cheese. Don’t forget, they need water, too.

P.P.S. If you like my blog - the passion, the philosophy - you’ll absolutely love my novel. “Deftly and intriguingly written, ‘What if…?’ is a thriller that fans of other novels such as ‘The DaVinci Code’ will relish. Highly recommended to thriller fans everywhere and should enjoy a spot on every fiction thrillers shelf.” Midwest Book Review. Please click here for an overview of the book or here for sample chapters.

What do you think? Have your say - leave a comment!

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61 Responses to “Do Animals Have Souls? The Answer is…”

# Steve N. Leeon 19 Jun 2008 at 9:36 pm

Sorry, but the audio is out of sync with the video.
Steve
# Hankaon 20 Jun 2008 at 3:25 pm

She did come back!
# Mary Owenson 21 Jun 2008 at 8:26 pm

I am so sorry about Sarah.
# Terrie Won 21 Jun 2008 at 10:59 pm

I am very touched Steve! I am so sorry that Sarah is no longer in this life of the physical. But she is not dead, she lives in the next life! You know that now.

Dead is not dead.

I know, I know, people will debate this point from now til doomday as they have since time began. And countless more will debate if animals have souls or not for an equal amount of time.

The truths I have come to know are this; animals DO have souls, so do human beings. I also know dead is not dead. It is only a transition to another form of ‘life’. Souls never die they just go on to another stage of being. I also know that all things, all beings, are connected. I cannot tell you how I ‘know’ but I have ‘known’ it for a very long time and in the deepest parts of my being.

I also know that beings come back to visit now and then as well. As Sarah came and visited you! They will sometimes let you know they are there and somtimes they won’t. But they are there. I know this from my own experiences.

Do not feel guilty Steve, Sarah knows that you cared. For three days all three of your souls connected. And it was special. You will always have those three days and you will always be connected.

Deep down, you already know this truth.

T
# Steve N. Leeon 22 Jun 2008 at 11:18 am

Thank you, Hanka. So few words and yet they mean so much.

And thanks for your kind words, too, Mary.

Terrie, it’s strange you should talk about us all being connected. I don’t know if you’ve read ‘What if…?’, but there’s a whole dialogue on that very subject.

Myoshu, the Buddhist priest who gave me the testimonial on my website, liked that part so much that she asked if she could discuss my book with her students as part of their studies. High praise!

Yes, we are all connected. It’s a pity that people are not just not aware of this, but if approached with the concept, they actively fight against it.

I’m pleased to hear that you know this and that it obviously affects your outlook on life for the better. If only we could get the message to more people, huh, Terrie. Thanks for your support and wise words.

Thanks everyone. Hope you’re all enjoying your weekend,
Steve
# Charleson 22 Jun 2008 at 3:05 pm

Real sorry for your loss. I don’t know if animals have souls, or if there is an afterlife, or if ghosts can knock over a bag. I think the best is not to try knowing, everyone will get to know sooner or later. Sometimes it can help cope though so in this case, yup, there’s a soul and a ghost and big thanks coming to you from her when your time comes (the later the better though).
# Steve N. Leeon 22 Jun 2008 at 7:12 pm

The later the better? Thanks, Charles. And thanks for your understanding.

Yes, coping mechanisms come into their own at times like these. But that said, as you rightly point out, none of us know the truth - yet. Logic can’t say what happened and why. I’d welcome it if it could - I like answers. So, as it can’t be proven that she didn’t visit, in fact it can’t be reasonably explained in any way, this one goes to Sarah.

Thanks for taking the trouble to comment, Charles. Hope your weekend is going well.
Steve
# Cate Groveson 22 Jun 2008 at 8:11 pm

How sad, Steve, that Sarah did not recover. I know animals have souls. Let me share a story.

When I lived, years ago, in a small house by a lake, my across-and-down the street neighbors, Dave & Carole, had a sweet German Short-Haired Pointer named Lady. She and our dog Emma were best pals. They roamed the woods together (it was a very safe, small private community), played, chased our cats and theirs (of course never catching or hurting them), and generally just hung out together for years.

One night, I noticed Lady standing out on our deck. I was surprised she was out, for it was dark and Emma was inside with us. I opened the slider and Lady came in, wagging her stumpy little tail. She laid down on the rug in front of the wood stove, and sat down there petting her and Emma. Eventually Lady got up and went to the door. I let her out and watched her trot down the street and off home.

The next day, which was a Sunday, Carole came over crying and said Lady had died. What a shock! She seemed perfectly fine when she was visiting us (something, by the way, she’d never done before - ask to come into our house, that is).

I’m convinced that Lady came to say goodbye to us and Emma. I am sure she knew was ill (it turned out she had undetectable cancer) and dying. I will never forget that half hour or so I petted Lady, never knowing I would never see her again.
# piRjo sundqviston 22 Jun 2008 at 9:04 pm

‘Yes Steve ,thAt waS a wonderful and touching learning-expeRience, even the pope has aDmitted the faAct that animals have souls, and he is the epitah
of an conservative ;)
# Donaon 22 Jun 2008 at 9:31 pm

Oh, how my heart hurts! There are tears in my eyes and I’m SO sorry for your loss. Yes, animals most definitely have souls. Some may not define them in the same way as a human soul, but they are souls nonetheless.

I greatly enjoyed your story and video when you found Sarah. And it’s so true what you write “The problem is that to us Sarah was a marvel, a treasure, something to cherish for a lifetime. To them, it was just another bird.”

This is true of all people. The more connected and touched we are by something, the more we mourn them. But that doesn’t mean we don’t mourn that which we never knew. Empathy is necessary to a REAL life and though many make fun of me, I cry at road kill and any other death I see. I think animals are closer to God than we are. They live more perfect, in sync lives than we.

Again, I’m so sorry. Sarah, be free my lovely!
# Louise Bristowon 22 Jun 2008 at 10:05 pm

They definitely do-Noah’s Ark!
# Margaret Hartleyon 22 Jun 2008 at 10:30 pm

First allow me to say how very sorry I am that you lost Sarah. I know that doesn’t cause the loss to become any less painful- but at least you tried and that alone is unique in todays society except for a few “tree hugging-liberal-save everything-greenies. I’m happy to be one of those and happy to find that I’m not alone.

Animals most certainly have souls. Look into their eyes (past the fear/distrust/pain or the hope/need/pleading and see the intelligence that allows them to be so different than us. Animals don’t cheat-lie-steal-destroy their environment or plot to destroy those they disagree with. They mourn the loss of their own and their friends and even humans they have bonded with.

Perhaps the question should be pondered and ask: do humans have a soul??
# Anne Thompsonon 22 Jun 2008 at 11:27 pm

I’m so sorry to see that Sarah didn’t make it Steve. But her final days spent with you have made such a difference to her. Days that she would surely not have had if left to fend for herself in the park. Her time here is up, and whilst we will never know for sure what lies beyond, I feel animals have their own special place, and will surely continue to acknowledge the friends who have made a difference to them whilst here on this earth. I for one am convinced that they do have souls.
Thank you and bless you both for all you did for this little one.
# Carol Bischoffon 23 Jun 2008 at 12:32 am

Dear Steve , I am very sorry to hear about Sarahs`passing….this must be so heart-breaking for you , I too , know only too well , the agony of losing a beloved pet. That said , YES animals deffinately DO have souls..I have experienced this…and I know you have too..Sarah came back to say thankyou.

Thankyou both for all you did for this little bird , who still loves you both.
# Glendaon 23 Jun 2008 at 12:56 am

I’m so sorry that Sarah didn’t make it. Try to remember that she had love from two very special people in her last days, and didn’t die alone where you found her.

I think she did come back to say thank you and good bye and that goes to show how much you both meant to her.
# Mikeon 23 Jun 2008 at 1:46 am

While I may be a bit off topic, I’d like to let you know that in the long cruel study of wolf stomach contents, the relationship between wolf and raven was looked at in an area where there was significant mutual interaction.
Although several birds of other species were found to be part of wolf diet, no evidence of raven at all was found in the stomachs.
Just as here where ravens have sometimes played with the wolf I walk with, also in the wild, they recognize one another.
In doing so, they teach the watcher.

I believe a raven has lived in captivity for almost 60 years. I read that 30 years occurs in the wild.

Souls?
At least for now, all we are sure of is that each living being is unique. It appears that a life encountered always has meaning, always teaches things as profound as one can comprehend.

While biological science warns against teleology, physics indicates that time is more malleable than we understand.

If we honor the spirit of each individual, and of the kind (species, race, however you differentiate among living), we find the unique meaning, indeed, message.
If we are symbol-makers as a race, the greatest meaning of this skill may be that we can dimly understand and grow from the ancient and ever-new lessons given by each spirit.

The crow often laughs. It bids you to joy, fierce and gentle.
# Mark F.on 23 Jun 2008 at 3:57 am

Amazing. Amazing that more do not see these types of things more often. It would be highly arrogant to presume animals have no soul.
# Jillyanne Michelle Capeon 23 Jun 2008 at 4:18 am

I had a very long response written, but when I tried to submit it, did not take. Very upsetting, brought about a few Care2 flashbacks!! Next time I will copy and paste to make sure it is not lost. I am not even going to attempt to rewrite the entire message, but will be more careful in the future.
I definitely believe that animals have souls and even asked the same question as Margaret, who voiced “Do PEOPLE have souls?” and for good reason. I have had very close contact in the wild with animals that were totally untamed and had extraordinary experiences, a few of them were a mountain lion whose presence I felt very strongly before there was any physical sign whatsoever to indicate it. Not only did I feel the presence, I knew it was a large cat - large enough definitely to kill me. I felt it’s intelligence and was in awe when it whisked by me grabbing up in it’s jaws a small companion animal I knew I could not possibly save. I could feel the rush of air brush by my body. The cat was swift and almost totally silent. You would not have heard her approach. I did not really feel I was in danger, but I stood perfectly still because I knew how powerful this being was.
I also came eye to eye with a hawk which stood half my height that somebody was trying to kill. There was a communication with our eyes and I stayed with the animal, and close enough to be less than two feet away until he was out of danger. He never tried to harm me. I never thought of my own safety. I befriended a wolf that others had tried to, unsuccessfully and he allowed me to pet him and his eyes smiled playfully at me with love. Once picked up and carried a snapping turtle large enough to have taken off my arm with one bite across a busy road to safety. It never tried to harm me.
I have been around animals all of my life and could just keep writing probably all night here about my own experiences. Recently I lost two very beloved dogs whom I had for over ten years and am still grieving significantly, wishing and wondering if I could have done something different that they might still be here. They died within days of each other, entirely of different causes and had been fairly healthy up until their deaths. Would speak more of them but it would amount to volumes. They were the most beautiful, gentle, loving SOULS one could ever hope to meet.
I have had the experience of taking an animal to a clinic and getting the feeling later that had I kept it at home, the outcome might have been different, so I can relate to your feeling that to the people at the sanctuary, Sarah was “just another bird”. Hurts tremendously, but is a lesson learned. Love has an impact. Love sustains life. All life. One will never know if the outcome had been different had you kept her at home, but your heart was in the right place and you were doing what you thought at the time was best. Been there.
Animals have a different type of intelligence and sensory perception that in some ways surpasses that of humans. I don’t know how anybody who believes that people have souls who has ever spent any time with animals could question whether or not animals have souls. One thing about the animal kingdom which is not true of “human beings” - they generally take only what they need. If only people could learn to be so humane. Animals are also endlessly forgiving, always loving, loyal, honest….etc… Their trust when given is like that of a child, innocent. Crows are said to be the most intelligent of all birds also and my experience with birds is that they are NOT dumb. They have such personality! I have no doubt at all that animals have souls, they ARE souls. At least as deep as we are, perhaps moreso. It is our ignorance which questions so much. Animals do not look around questioning their very existence and such…they know.
I believe Sarah did come back to you and this is very special. She must have loved you deeply in the small amount of time she had, and appreciated I am sure everything you did for her. She is free now. Missed and grieved, but her spirit is set free and not suffering. I believe she came back also to let you know she is OK and perhaps to say goodbye.
# Kathyon 23 Jun 2008 at 7:39 am

So very sorry to hear about Sarah. She did not die in vain. She had very loving people taking care of her in her last days and am sure she loved you back and appreciated what you did for her. I most definatley believe animals have souls! Have had far to many “fur babies” to not believe that. So, don’t worry…. am sure she is already spreading the word around about what great people you and your wife are. :)
# Kathyon 23 Jun 2008 at 8:32 am

Steve I’m so sorry about poor little Sarah:(
I once worried about animals having souls and being in Heaven.
I then read the true teaching of Jesus http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_section_4_lections_31_thru_40.htm#Lection%2034

I feel much better now:)
I believe Sarah came back to thank you and let you know,, She’s going to be all right.
GodBless you and your wonderful wife.
Kathy Chad
# Aniaon 23 Jun 2008 at 10:18 am

Hello Everybody!
Thank you all for your wise words!I read the comments this morning and guess what…started crying again. Sarah became a part of our little family, a part of us and she always be. Thank you!
# R.Davison 23 Jun 2008 at 1:08 pm

Why don’t you people get a life!!! Millions of humans are starving to death on this earth and suffering many other traumatic horrendous lives and you are boo hoo- ing over a crow? I am also compassionate about animals but comeonnnn! Put things in perspective!I’m in Florida and 30,000 die in our parks every year, from roadkills. Bawl your eyes out over that but don’t give me this depressing crap over a crow.
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 3:17 pm

Hi everyone,

It’s always a joy to come to my blog and find it filled with comments. Intelligent comments from educated people. Compassionate comments from caring people. Insightful comments from wise people.

Then there are those ‘other’ people.

Like my newest friend R.Davis here. I’ve never met anyone who had a period actually within their name before, so I feel quite humble that someone so important has seen fit to grace my little blog. A hyphen, yes. But never a period. What an honour. Unless, of course, R.Davis is simply so stupid he hasn’t even mastered writing his own name yet. In which case, it’s doubtful he’ll have anything of interest to say to anyone. But you never know…

Now before anyone says anything, please remember that R.Davis is just as entitled to his opinion as anyone else. So, let’s look at his issues.

But first. R.Davis is so formal. If only there was a full name.

I bet that ‘R’ stands for Rick, but not the traditional spelling - it’s Rick with a silent ‘P’ - Prick Davis.

So, Prick Davis, to address your ‘issues’ with this post – sorry – with this ‘depressing crap’.

Now, I’m guessing you weren’t the brightest kid in school, am I right? But I did think that a title like ‘Do Animals Have Souls? The Answer is…’ would have told even the stupidest kid that this was a post about animals and that it may be upsetting, talking about grief, death and spirituality (hope that last one isn’t too long a word. I know you won’t have one in your house, but maybe you could borrow a dictionary from a neighbour).

But maybe it’s not your fault. Maybe your carer, or whoever it is that feeds you and changes your diapers, neglected to adopt the correct tone of voice when reading the title to you so you took it to be the beginning of a joke or something.

And millions of people are starving are they? Would they be the millions I’ve talked about umpteen times on this blog? Or are they a different bunch of ‘millions’ that only you know about? My, what a wonderful world it would be if only everybody was as informed as you. Or did you just remember seeing that fact on the news – that boring show between your cartoons and your soaps – and just happened to remember it?

You, Prick Davis, are compassionate about animals? Now, this really is the only point of your very cogent argument that I honestly have to take issue with. Not that I doubt you. I’m sure you are so compassionate that you always ensure animals are dead, or at least stunned, before you eat them. Or do anything else to them, for that matter. (It wasn’t my post entitled ‘The Top 10 Reasons Why Bestiality is Beautiful’ that brought you to my blog was it? Boy, I can see why you’re upset if it was. All those rampant hormones suddenly with no release.) But I do think you should run and borrow that dictionary again. There’s no point in remembering how to spell big words like ‘compassionate’ if you’ve no idea what they mean so use them at the most inappropriate of times.

Finally, I wasn’t aware I’d ‘given’ you this depressing crap. I wasn’t aware that I’d forced you to click on the link to this post and so waste your obviously precious time - time away from surfing for porn, no doubt.

But maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m expecting too much. I mean, there are some pretty long words in that title, so it’s no surprise that some readers are confused as to what to expect. So, to you, Prick Davis, and all the other little Prick Davises out there… hmmm, is it ‘Davises’ or ‘Davi’…? Well, let’s shorten it to be on the safe side. To all you Pricks out there I send my humble apologies.

Oh, yes. And you’re banned from this blog, Prick Davis.

I can handle your type easily enough, but I’m not having an absolute a-hole come and upset my other readers, many of whom have lost animals themselves so could be distressed by the ramblings of a complete imbecile.

Thanks for stopping by and brightening up my afternoon, Prick Davis.

Steve
P.S. Ania, my partner, made her first ever guest appearance on this blog today to thank everyone for their kind words. She’s very educated - far more so than I am - and chooses her words very carefully. She’s chosen a special two for you, Prick Davis - ‘F*ck off!’ Now, why didn’t I think of that!?

P.P.S. I just looked up Prick Davis’s details so I could ban him. You’ll think I’m making this up, but I think I hit the ‘bestiality’ nail right on the head.
Firstly, at 12:59 a Google search brought someone to my website - a search for ‘bestiality with pigs’. Prick Davis’s post was submitted at 1:08. No one else visited my blog in those intervening minutes.
Secondly, his email address is wet_safari@netzXXX. ‘Wet Safari’? Hell, I feel dirty just reading his comment now!
If ever I need to write a pervert for one of my books I know where I can get an excellent case study!
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 4:02 pm

So, for the second time - and not the last, today - hi everyone.

Wow, so many wonderful comments. Where do I start?

Well, thank you.

That’s a wonderful, if touching, story about Lady, Cate. Yes, I’m sure animals have instincts and can sense things we can only guess at. For example, some animals seem to be able to sense when a person is sick, so modify their behaviour. How? They’re just a ‘dumb animal’! Now, if we could get sniffer dogs to help find cancers… I wonder if anyone every explores such possibilities?

piRjo - thanks for your comment. Very informative. I honestly can’t remember if I’ve seen anything on that or not, so thank you.

Empathy? Yes, you’re right, Dona. And at the risk of making this read like an advertisement for my novel - I wrote a section revolving around empathy and how it is the solution to all the world’s ills in ‘What if…?’. (It comes at a major turning point in the book, actually, making it all the more pertinent and poignant.) I don’t know why people feel so separate from everything else, so find empathy such an alien concept. Well, I do - because from a very early age we’re taught to value the latest pair of Nike, etc, over anything else. If only we could develop new values.

Thanks for contributing, Louise. I’m afraid it’s a while since I read the Bible, but I think I know what you’re getting at.

Okay, I’m going to break my replies up into separate comments because one immensely long one will probably look too forboding for people to read.

Thanks to all of you,
Steve
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 4:21 pm

Thanks, Margaret. Yes, I always wonder what’s behind there when I look into an animals eyes. Sometimes they are so sad, other’s so wise, playful, knowing… Good point. As is the cheating/stealing part. Yes, they are far more ‘honest’ than we are.

Your words are very kind, Anne. Thank you. I’m sure she did realize the difference we made, which is why she came back. Even if only briefly.

Carol, yes, animals give us so much and then make such a hole when they leave us. Makes you almost want to stop caring at times. Almost! But how could you ever do that? Thanks.

Thanks, Glenda. Yes, I’m sure she came back to tell us that for those very reasons. Bringing joy to the midst of sorrow.

If only we could grow by the lessons given us by each spirit, Mike. That truly would make a wondrous world. You sound to experience a truly wondrous world yourself - the harmony of walking with a wolf that plays with ravens. There are lessons to be learned from the lives we encounter. It’s a pity more people aren’t atune to such.

Yes, Mark, it is amazing. One of my friends on Care2 told me how she regularly had encounters with the animals in her life that had died. It is amazing. Truly. If only more people could experience such things it would be a tremendous step forward for animal rights.

Thanks to all of you,
Steve
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 4:31 pm

Jillyanne, I’m so sorry to hear you lost your comment. You’re not the first - Terrie who commented earlier on this post lost one a few weeks back. I couldn’t find a reason, so just had to put it down to some inexplicable glitch. I’ve lost them on blogs before now, so I know how infuriating it is, so, as you suggest, whenever I remember I copy and paste to be safe. Thanks for taking the time to comment again.

Those stories are wonderful. Especially of the cat. I can’t begin to e imagine what that must have felt like.

I know what you mean about how people can possibly think animals don’t have souls, without question. I think it’s probably people who don’t have a respect for any life but their own, whether human or animal.

Thank you for your kind words about Sarah’s return. They really do mean a lot.

Yes, I think that’s the secret, Kathy - fur babies. If you have them and care for them, you can’t possibly think they are merely objects. Thank you.

Kathy Chad - thanks for the link which I’ll check out after finishing these replies. Yes, I’m sure she came back to thank us, to say goodbye, but also to let us know she didn’t blame us - which was a major concern. Thanks for your comment.

Thanks to all of you for such valuable contributions.
Steve
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 4:36 pm

And who’s that last comment by that I need to reply to? Why, it’s my own little Polish person!

Hi Ania,

Though you’re now sitting just feet away (that’s a couple of metres to you Europeans), I feel you deserve a reply, too.

Thanks for taking the time to drop all our friends here a quick note. And I know just how you felt when you read all these wonderful comments first thing this morning - they truly are so unbelievably touching.

It’s so nice to know there are so many good souls in the world, isn’t it!?

Thanks,
Steve
# SOLEDAD POSACon 23 Jun 2008 at 5:32 pm

Hi Ania and Steve, I am really sad to hear about what happened to Sarah. I assure you that I know how you felt, everyone who has lost a friend knows it. but let me tell you that I am sure that animals have souls and I know that I will find them again
God bless you guys.
Soledad
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 5:39 pm

Hi Soledad,

Thanks for your kind words. I truly do hope that we find all our friends again. My, think what a beautiful day that will be!

Steve
# DianeMarieon 23 Jun 2008 at 9:04 pm

Hi Steve & Ania,
What an amazing, wonderful experience you both had with Sara! I know your sad at the loss of Sara, and I fully understanding having a passion for all wildlife…But I also believe it’s part of a journey and Sara is still near…At one point I did not think animals had souls , but my way of thinking has changed..
I feel Sara came back to let you both know she is “allright” you took great care of her, loved her, showed compassion on one of God’s small creatures…Your special people!
Thanks for sharing this with us, and I love the video!
I know it is hard, but try not to be sad, you gave Sarah love & compassion, you made her happy! Rememeber all the great things about her…..

DianeMarie

Ania, Your a beautiful lady with an even more beautiful smile!

God Bless……….
# Steve N. Leeon 23 Jun 2008 at 9:25 pm

Hi DianeMarie,

That’s so kind of you. Yes, Sarah did brighten our lives and, we brightened hers, if all too briefly. We will always cherish the time we spent with her.

I’m glad you’ve changed your mind and now believe animals have souls. I don’t know much about the theological thoughts on this subject - Christianity-wise, that is (though I may be wrong, I think Hinduism believes all creatures have souls, but I’ll have to check on that). As Elle commented only recently on this post - http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/03/20/do-animals-have-souls/ -
God will populate heaven with all our loved ones. I honestly don’t know if there is a God or a heaven, but if there are, then it would seem a very strange place if it was only filled with people. Very strange and quite horrible! So, if there are creatures as well, then wouldn’t it be fair to assume that they’d be ones that were familiar to us?

Anyway, thanks, DianeMarie. And thank you on Ania’s behalf - she’ll appreciate your comments as she wasn’t comfortable having her photo plastered on the internet for the whole world to see.

Have a wonderful week, DianeMarie,
Steve
# Annaon 24 Jun 2008 at 2:08 am

Dear Steve,
I had an experience years ago with a wren I found in my yard. The family cat may have captured it, but the bird was still alive without apparent injury. After a few days of helping the bird back to health by keeping the bird in an open box in my room and feeding it with a dropper, it was well enough to transport to the bird sanctuary. But unfortunately the bird died on the way over to the sanctuary. It was a very sad day.
I wonder if birds become attached to their rescuers and become broken hearted when they sense them leaving?
# Anneliseon 24 Jun 2008 at 4:27 am

No words will do. Feelings only.
Too much. Too great. Too profound.
All creatures.
Love.
# Margaritaon 24 Jun 2008 at 9:48 am

Hello, Steve and Ania.
First of all, even though many have said that before me, let me tell you how very sorry I am for the loss of Sarah. It is better not to pay attention to the “what ifs” since they can be real torture. You have the satisfaction that you did everything you could for Sarah and, seeing that video, you gave her some wonderful time with you.
I am now suffering the loss of Berlioz, one of my dogs, who died on the night from the 12th to the 13th June. It came as a shock, too, since he had been ill during the weekend, then recovered for three days, so that he was his old self again, only to have a relapse on Thursday from which he didn’t recover. Kidney failure. He died at home, he had a wonderful life and did not suffer. I had time to thank him for having come into my life and now his ashes are resting under a newly planted tree. But, oh! the pain! the absence! and the mental torture of not knowing whether this is the end of it! I went through that when my first cat Misi died almost 8 years ago and I keep on suffering knowing that, with so many non-human animal companions, I’ll have to go through that many more times in my life. So much so that at times I am unable to enjoy the present, knowing that, at the end, the pain is awaiting. I know this is utterly stupid, but I am an expert in destroying my happy life with those thoughts. Even though I have beliefs about the transcendence of the soul (for everyone; I don’t think we are that special to consider that it is true for human animals and not for non-human animals. If we have it, so do they, if they don’t, neither do we), as Steve said, I need answers. The doubts are killing me. When moments of certainty come, then I have peace of mind and soul, but they do not last long. I so much envy people who know for sure, who have that conviction.
Sorry, I’m rambling. I suppose I’m hurting too much and I just wanted to share this with people who feel like I do.
Thanks for this wonderful website and the extraordinary sharing of stories.
Tons of love to everyone from Spain.
# Steve N. Leeon 24 Jun 2008 at 10:49 am

Thanks for the touching comment, Margarita. I’m sorry to hear you lost your friend Berlioz, and so recently, too. After Berlioz seemed to recover, it must have been a dreadful shock. At least you had chance to say goodbye by the sound of it. That itself is a blessing.

Yes, I understand just what you are saying about worrying about future incidents to the detriment of the present. I know people who do that. It’s not healthy as it really does impact badly upon your experiences today. And I’m sure animals are sensitive enough to pick up on these things. If we spend too much of the present worrying about the inevitable sadness that will come in the future, we really do miss out on living life as it is supposed to be lived. I sincerely hope you find a way to grieve that allows you to cherish today without fear of what will tomorrow will bring.

Thank you for your kind and touching comment, Margarita,
Steve
# Steve N. Leeon 24 Jun 2008 at 10:59 am

Thanks, Annelise. Sometimes great depth can be expressed with few words.

Broken hearted? Yes, that’s something that we’ve puzzled over, Anna. I don’t know how quickly birds imprint, but after losing her parents, then losing her adopted parents just days later, Sarah must have wondered what was happening to her when she found herself in yet another strange place with even more strange creatures prodding and poking her. That must have been traumatic. But you never know how resilent animals are, do you? We knew it was the only way she’d ever lead a normal, wild life, so thought it worth the risk. It’s not a pleasant decision to have to make, but the whole of life is a gamble, isn’t it, so you just take a chance on what appears to be the best shot at success.

I’m sorry to hear you lost your little wren. Maybe it’s playing with Sarah this very moment.

Thanks both of you for your comments,
Steve

P.S. Jillyanne, this page just crashed on me, so it isn’t only my readers who must take care in case there’s a glitch and they lose everything. Luckily, I’d copied the comment to be able to submit it again without any problems.
# Margaritaon 24 Jun 2008 at 11:10 am

Thanks, Steve. I will try to work on that. I have so many non-human companions that need me, and my partner, too. Berlioz was, after all, his dog for 11 years, with me, almost 5 and I am coping much worse than him, simply because of my negative attitude.
Thanks, a million thanks for your kindness.
# Steve N. Leeon 24 Jun 2008 at 11:20 am

You’re very welcome, Margarita. That’s one good think about blog posts like this one - people can see that they aren’t weird because they care about ‘dumb animals’, that far from being alone with grief, there are many, many other people who know just what they’re feeling and can offer support and advice.

I’m sure your partner is devastated, too. People deal with loss in very different ways. Luckily it sounds like he’s found a better coping mechanism. I hope you manage to find one, too.

If nothing else, think of those other little creatures that rely on you for food, protection and love - they need you. You have to be strong for them. Take care, Margarita. You’ll be okay. Believe me.
Steve
# Kent Butleron 24 Jun 2008 at 6:44 pm

Absolutely animals have souls. That should be obvious to anyone who deals with animals on a regular basis. If it isn’t, either they’re not paying any attention to the animals (how can that be?), or have allowed their cynicism to overpower everything. Which would be very sad.

My sympathies to you both for Sarah.

Note: It is not true and never has been true that “Nice guys finish last.” Further, that’s NOT what Leo Durocher said - the reporter screwed it up (wow - imagine that!). Durocher was watching his team practice and talking to himself, not to the idiot sports reporter. Sadly noting his team wasn’t very good - nice guys, but not very good, Durocher said, muttering to himself: …nice guys… probably finish last… I really don’t care how many “references” provide the alleged “quote” - it’s still wrong.

Now, you know.
# Steve N. Leeon 24 Jun 2008 at 6:59 pm

Good of you to share an insight into that misquote. Kent. And thanks for your sympathies.

It’s strange how what is obvious to one person is not to another. But maybe it’s not so clear cut - mathematics is relatively simple for me and yet I know people who can’t comprehend even the most basic of concepts. That said, with regards to animals and souls, maybe you have to want to see, too. Or as you say, the world has dulled their senses to the point they can’t see what’s right before their eyes.

Sad. Yes. Very.

Thanks, Kent.
Steve
# michaelon 25 Jun 2008 at 5:34 pm

the answer is NO animals do not have souls when there dead there dead stop obsessing over a brid and get over it.there are only a few animals that even know that there alive, elephants,dolphins,whales and a few more deffiently not drity crows.people are so weird with animals animals arn’t people and people need to get over acting like they are im not saying it’s okay to be mean and crul to animals but when there dead there dead its not something to worry about crows are a satanic brid anyway so if they went anywhere when they died it would be hell………….

hahahaha
# Steve N. Leeon 25 Jun 2008 at 6:36 pm

Michael, I welcome comments on my blog, as is obvious from my replies to them. I also encourage people to put forward different viewpoints to my own in order to further the discussion of that week’s topic. I don’t mind if people post negative comments in the least, so long as they are intelligent, on topic, and not intended to cause offense.

That said, as I read yours I’d decided that you were perfectly entitled to your beliefs so I’d try and address them as best I could.

And then I read that last line - “hahahaha”.

Yours was never intended as an intelligent comment that simply took a contrary viewpoint to those posted here but was simply an attempt to offend good people.

I’m sorry, Michael - oops - michael, but if you’re going to survive in the adult world you really should try to behave like an adult.

Your complete lack of sensitivity towards people who are grieving proves that you are psychologically stunted, knowing little of people or emotions.

And if you’d stayed in school, perhaps I’d be addressing someone who at least knew how to write their own name - it’s ‘Michael’! Yes, even someone as deficient as you deserves a capital letter at the start of their name.

You might also have learned something of grammar, spelling and punctuation.

Oh, and that there’s a big difference between some words even though they sound the same, for example, ‘their’, ‘there’ and ‘they’re’.

But - and this is the point you should really take notice of - when you present an contrary point of view to someone else’s in order to prove that they are wrong and that you are right… well, you have to actually prove it. (Sorry if that sounds like a lot of effort, but that’s how it works.)

to prove your point, you have to present a logical argument. Simply saying ‘when there dead there dead’ is not an argument. To be honest, it’s not even English! That’s the kind of illogical garbage a child uses to ‘prove’ they’re right (did you notice? ‘they’re’ not ‘there’).

For example, I could just have put this comment – ‘michael is a moron’. But without a reasoned argument why should anyone believe it? Instead, I’ve proven to people what a total a-hole you truly are!

Is your life really so empty and pointless that the only happiness you can glean from it is to find good people to offend? What a sad, stupid tiny, tiny, TINY man, you are.

Steve
# Virginiaon 25 Jun 2008 at 7:00 pm

Dear Steve and Ania, I am so sorry about Sarah!!
We are in the same place right now, mourning our beloved animal friends. I lost my 17-1/2 year-old Himalayan cat, Mignon 6-21-08. She was dead when my friend came downstairs Saturday morning.
I was in the hospital until yesterday and she died four days after I left the house. I just hope and pray that she did not think I left her intentionally. I guess that is why I was looking for sites about animals having souls. She has been withering away for a couple of months, but I had no idea that she would die so soon and with me being gone - unable to be with her during her last hours.
In your situation, please know you gave Sarah happiness - happiness that she would never have known if you had not come into her life.
Virginia
# Steve N. Leeon 25 Jun 2008 at 7:12 pm

I’m sorry to hear about Mignon, Virginia. Ania and I went through that same experience, right down to not being there at the end, with our own cat. If you haven’t seen that post, here’s a link - http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/03/20/do-animals-have-souls/

It isn’t easy and you can’t help but beat yourself up about what you could have done differently. Especially when your little friend has been with you for what often feels like forever.

Thank you for your sympathies, and please accept mine. I’m sure Mignon didn’t feel abandoned. From the sound of things, it was simply her time and there’s little you could have done, so forgive yourself.

Do check out that other post. There is sadness there, but also some things that are truly heartwarming.

Steve
# Margaritaon 26 Jun 2008 at 8:54 am

I don’t even know whether to bother replying to “michael” since Steve has already done such a good job, but I really like to see that, from time to time, some people help me prove my point. I believe that we humans are not that special, if there is a soul for us, there is one too for animals, if they don’t have it, neither do we. However, cases like “michael’s” prove that there are humans that didn’t receive a soul or an inkling of sensitivity when they made their entrance in this world whereas so many other human animals are far more capable of sympathising even with members of other species. Maybe some human animals do not have a soul, after all. Having said that, enough of my time for this particular specimen. “michael”, why don’t you just f*** off?
Virginia, I am so sorry about Mignon. I know how the mind can torture you since I am mourning also for the death of a member of my family, Berlioz, a noble, wonderful Samoyed which passed away on the night from the 12th to the 13th. I know it’s easier said that done but please don’t torture yourself. Many people “choose” to die when members of the family are not in the room, or they fall asleep after having been awake for hours on end. I do believe non-human animals may choose to do the same. So, mourn your beloved cat, express your grief but do not turn it towards you (wow! I should be applying that to myself too!)
Tons of love.
# Steve N. Leeon 26 Jun 2008 at 9:58 am

Margarita, have you been telepathically sneaking a peek at the post I’m preparing for this week? That’s naughty!

I actually touch upon a point you make here, though it’s not strictly what the post is about. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it from what you’ve said.

As for michael, Prick Davis and their kin - evolution and the gene pool will eventually weed out such abnormalities from the human race. Unfortunately, that’s going to take quite some time.

I did read somewhere that some animals sense they may be dying and seek solitude for their final moments. Unfortunately, I can’t remember where that was to be able to say it with any authority. But just as some people want to be fussed over when ill while others want to be left alone, it’s fair to assume that some animals will have the same preferences.

As for ‘dumb animals’ - the crow is supposed to be one of the most intelligent bird species. According to one Polish language website, a crow can have the same level of intelligence as a 3-year-old human - that’s more intelligent than some of this post’s readers (I think it’s glaringly obvious which ones).

That’s sound advice you are giving Virginia - please, remember to take it yourself.

Steve
# Deniseon 28 Jun 2008 at 3:09 am

First of all, I’m so sorry about Sarah’s passing. The only thing that comforts me in times of loss is that they are free from pain & always with you & watching over you. Which comes to my second point….yes, animals do indeed have souls! I’m way too convinced to be told otherwise & judging from this post, so are you! I ahve no doubt that Sarah dropped by to let you know she’s OK now.
# Steve N. Leeon 28 Jun 2008 at 1:17 pm

If Sarah had been suffering, then, yes, we might find comfort in her being ‘released’, but she wasn’t. Far from it. She seemed to be healthy and enjoying life. That’s what makes it so painful. But, yes, normally, we would find solace in such thoughts. Thank you for your kind words and support, Denise.

Steve
# Virginiaon 28 Jun 2008 at 4:14 pm

Steve, you and Ania are doing the same thing I am and we all have to find a way to get past this self tourture because there is nothing we can do to change the past. I am beating myself up because the last couple of days before they put me in the hospital, I did not seek out Mignon and hold her or be with her, in fact, I did not even give her her medicine that last night because I was so miserable. However, she came to check on me….They put me in the hospital and she died 3 days later. I knew she was wasting away, but guess I must have been in denial that her death was so near. I made arrangements for her care from the hospital as far as family to come by and give her her medicine and take care of her needs. I cannot change the fact that I did not spend time with her those last couple of days when I could have…if only I had known it was her last week on earth, I would not have left her for any reason. You and Ania had no way of knowing what would happen to Sarah. You thought you were helping Sarah regain her natural life.
We all need to put our faith and trust in the fact that yes, they have souls and yes, they are in a better place, and yes, they understand what happened and the circumstances around what & why we did what we did.
The day I came home from the hospital, I believe that I heard Mignon. I passed it off but mentioned it the next day to my friend who was here also and he said he heard it too. I am not saying that it definitely was Mignon because I have another cat, Josie, in the house. However, this sound was exactly like Mignon, very loud and Josie has never made a loud noise - she has an almost kitten sound to her but you could hear Mignon all over this two-story house. I would like to think it was Mignon and that she wanted me to know she was okay and was here with me.
Who knows any of this after-life for sure - that is where our faith kicks in and that is where we find the comfort we need so much at times like this - just like Sarah on her perch in the bathroom and now, the sound of Mignon.
Sarah knew you loved her and wanted the best for her.
# Steve N. Leeon 28 Jun 2008 at 8:08 pm

I’m sorry to hear you never got to say a proper goodbye to Mignon. I think that makes it far less painful for us. We said our goodbyes ad knew that we had no real choice but to give Sarah up so she might live a wild life. On the other hand, it sounds like you feel you did something wrong, that you failed Mignon in not being there at the end. But how could you do anything wrong when you’d put in place everything possible to take care of her? You didn’t know what was coming, so you can’t blame yourself at all, Virginia.

I’m pleased Mignon visited you. You should take great solace in that and forgive yourself for the ‘crime’ you feel you’ve committed (even though, in reality, you did everything right).

Take care, Virginia. I hope the world feels a happier place again soon,
Steve
# Mapa Karpaczaon 04 Jul 2008 at 10:34 am

Very nice Blog! Sweet blog!
# Roxann Con 11 Jul 2008 at 7:41 am

I’m very sorry to hear about Sarah. I feel your what if guilt because I fed our kitten Lukie can food on March 15th, 2007 and he was dead that night. I found out two days later that the food was tainted. I’ll never get over that guilt. Great Job with the article my friend.
# ACon 14 Jul 2008 at 7:19 pm

The English word “soul” derives from a number of different words in the Old and New Testaments and is used in the Bible in a variety of ways. First, it is employed as a synonym for a living, breathing person. Moses wrote: “All the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls” (Exodus 1:5; cf. Deuteronomy 10:22). Those who do not believe in God or accept the Bible as His Word (and thus deny the existence of an immortal soul) generally perceive animals as man’s equal in almost every aspect. They often refer to animals as being equal to humans with regard to how they should be viewed or treated. Also, can animals sin? Hardly. Indeed this position is at odds with Gods word. Man and animals do not share any kinship, notwithstanding the claims of evolutionists.

Listen to the apostle Paul when he wrote in 1 Corinthians 15: “All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes. Clearly Man is a special creation (“Genesis 1:26-30 and 2:7,21-25) with no genetic relationship to any other creature. Further, Man alone was created “in the image and likeness of God” (Genesis 1:26-27) something that may not be said of animals.

But do animals have souls? I will concede that animals may have “souls,” only if the word “soul” is used as the Bible employs it in discussing members of the animal kingdom (i.e., to describe only the physical life force found within all living creatures). But if the word “soul” is used to refer to an immortal soul that one day will inhabit heaven or hell, then no, animals may not be said to possess a soul. I know this is hard for a lot of people to accept, but fluffy isn’t waiting up in heaven wagging his little tail. This is the only conclusion that can be drawn, with the respect to the Word of God.
# Virginiaon 14 Jul 2008 at 8:38 pm

Well then, I wonder where the horse that Christ is to return on will come from…
# Terrie Won 15 Jul 2008 at 1:19 pm

AC wrote, “I know this is hard for a lot of people to accept, but fluffy isn’t waiting up in heaven wagging his little tail.”

Then I won’t be going to your concept of Heaven. Your Heaven is my Hell. I do not want to go to a place where there are no animals of any kind. How sterile, joyless and boring. If that ‘damns’ me in your eyes or your religion, then so be it.

Here’s another passage from your Bible, “Within my Father’s House, there are many mansions”. Who are we to know what those ‘mansions’ are? It’s all interpretation. Just as you are ‘interpreting’ what the above passages you are quoting means.

Since you are so sure about ‘Fluffy’ not being in the afterlife and that animals do not have immortal souls, then why did your God create them in the first place?

My interpretation of ‘Heaven’ is vastly different than yours. I will not change your beliefs anymore than you will change mine. You have the right and freedom to your beliefs and opinions as I have to mine.
# Nancy, aka Bookfoolon 22 Jul 2008 at 8:02 pm

That was lovely. I’m so sorry Sarah didn’t survive. I prefer to think animals have souls and have this sneaking suspicion that my one ghost encounter in England was the ghost of a friendly dog or cat. How else can you explain away a whump at the foot of the bed, followed by slow movement toward the headboard, between two people? It just seems like a very lovely pet-ghost kind of encounter. Scared the socks off me, though.
# Virginiaon 22 Jul 2008 at 10:53 pm

Nancy, when my 17.5-year-old cat, Mignon, died last month, I was in the hospital and I truly felt bad about not being able to say goodbye to her, and the fact that the couple of days before I went in the hospital, I basically ignored her for the most part because I was feeling so ill. I made arrangements for others to give her the medicine I usually gave her each evening and to care for her.
The day after I got out of the hospital, I was sitting here at the computer and I heard Mignon’s loud wail…This is a very large, two-story home and the sound radiated all over the house and then everything just fell silent. Mignon was a Himalayan which is part Siamese, so she could be loud when she wanted to be…and when she wanted attention, everyone knew it!!! I did not know what to think when I heard it and convinced myself that it was my imagination and let it go. A couple of days later, I was talking to my roommate about Mignon and I said, ‘you’re not going to believe this, but I thought I heard….’ at that point I was interrupted by my roommate who said, I know what you are going to say - that you heard her and I said, yes. My roommate went on to say that I did hear her because he had heard her at the same time. Neither one of us wanted to say anything when it happened, but we both heard her and both agreed said the sound came from the dining room where Mignon liked to stay.
My roommate says that he thinks that Mignon wanted me to know that she was fine and not to worry. I don’t know about that, but I would like to believe that is so. But, I can most definitely tell you that Mignon was heard in this house five days after she died.
# Magali Gómezon 23 Jul 2008 at 10:21 pm

I think you’re right, animals DO have a soul and moreover their own way of acting we say personality, in this case we should say “animality”. They can understand us, buy we have lost the ability of sharing with them in the hands of evolution, we speak and talk to each other, but we lost the ability to talk to ” our litle brothers”. I’ve herd many experiences similar ti what you wrote, so be confident and God bless you!
# Lindaon 27 Jul 2008 at 6:32 pm

I’m so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I live with four little cockatiels and love them to bits and I will go to any lengths to keep them happy and healthy. They all have their own unique personalities, likes, dislikes, and attachments. They are as individual as any human.

If humans have souls than animals do too. I believe out souls are limited by the body and brain they are in. If my souls were to somehow inhabit a bird I would be a bird and know what birds know and feel, not what humans know and feel because my soul would be limited to a different type of brain and body. When I look at all the horrors humans do I don’t necessarily believe the human body and brain are superior. Animals also have an ability to live in the moment that buddhist humans spend a lifetime trying to accomplish.

Sarah had accomplished her purpose in this life and was ready to move on to a different experience. It seems like part of her purpose was to give you the gift of loving her and experiencing the soul in a species other than your own. You did the best you knew how to, there is really no need to feel so guilty. People who have described near death experiences always say that they appreciate this life, but feel what comes next is really good.

People who claim only humans have souls sound dumb and arrogant (another inferior human trait), it’s ridiculous to say that only humans have souls because their physical brains are more complex is ridiculous. The human brain is limited also, we don’t know and understand everything. Intelligence is not soul. Is a mentally disabled human soulless? Far from it, talk to any person with down’s syndrome and you will meet a beautiful loving soul.

If the only argument for animals lacking a soul is the bible, people might want to look at different translations and ancient texts. The former pope stated animals have souls and are connected to us. I just feel sorry for people who believe that their understanding of the bible is the only true and real word of God, that’s so sad and limiting.
# Steve N. Leeon 11 Aug 2008 at 6:52 pm

Guys! Hi!

Did you think I’d done a runner?

Well, in a manner of speaking I did - I went on holiday (the one I mentioned in a recent post), but when I got back just over a week ago, I sucumbed to a flu-like virus. Just what I needed.

So, my apologies. I’d fully intended to have a fresh post up for you last Thursday as usual, but…

Anyway, nice to see the conversation carried on without me.

Roxann, I’m sorry to hear about your kitten. What an awful thing to happen. But you can’t blame yourself as you didn’t know the found was tainted. Please, forgive yourself. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - if only we could bottle it for when needed.

Very kind, Mapa. Much appreciated.

Thanks, Magali. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we really could communicate with animals? If we were all little Dr. Dolittles? I’ve seen ‘talking’ chimps and dolphins which were utterly remarkable, but only because they learned our language. Do you think one day we might learn theirs to be able to chat properly? Think of the wonders we’d discover.

An English ghost? Nancy, people would pay a fortunate for such an adventure so I hope you savoured it and didn’t just cower beneath the bedclothes! It does sound a wonderful experience, though. Thanks for looking me up and contributing!

Thanks,
Steve
# Steve N. Leeon 11 Aug 2008 at 7:38 pm

A.C., thanks for the comment. From a theological standpoint, I dare say it’s a reasoned argument, however it’s a few years since I read the Bible. An even bigger, ‘however’ comes when you look at it from a logical point of view, though.

For example, “Those who do not believe in God or accept the Bible as His Word (and thus deny the existence of an immortal soul)…” There is no logic here - I deny the Bible, yet I believe in an immortal soul.

‘They often refer to animals as being equal to humans with regard to how they should be viewed or treated.’ Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Jesus say, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? and not “Do unto people…” Where does it say we are allowed to cause unwarranted suffering to any living thing, if we so wish?

“All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes. Clearly Man is a special creation”

Eggs, a cabbage, some cornflakes, 16 beefburgers… Clearly eggs are a special creation. Is that a logical argument?

I won’t go on. Suffice it to say that I did find this comment particularly unwarranted: “I know this is hard for a lot of people to accept, but fluffy isn’t waiting up in heaven wagging his little tail.” I don’t know if you intended to hurt those readers who have recently lost pets and have bared their ‘immortal souls’ here or if it was a lapse of sensitivity, but I do think some readers will have been upset by this.

For this reason, you’ll forgive me if I’m equally ‘truthful’ and ‘honest’ about religion when I return to this subject in a future post. Don’t worry, I won’t be offensive, I’ll merely use logic and pose a few questions. (And, as usual, I’ll welcome feedback from any quarter as long as it adds to the conversation without offense.)

I had thought that this conversation about souls and animals was over, but I see, if you’ll excuse the pun, there’s life in the old dog yet!

Terrie, Linda, Virginia, thanks for your rebuttle of A.C.’s argument on my behalf as I was unavailable. I’m sure the next installment in the animal souls saga will be very enlightening.

Steve