Lions led by Sheep -

Oct 09 2008

$700 Billion - Bailed Out or Sold Out?

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23 Responses to “$700 Billion - Bailed Out or Sold Out?”

1. # Fran Cannonon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:46 pm

   That 7 billion dollars is certianly in the wrong hands, being used for the wrong things. Kind of makes me upset, even angry . The money should be used for humanity, not against it. It is scary!

2. # Steve N. Leeon 10 Oct 2008 at 7:22 am

   It is scary. Now the wonderful British Government is proposing spending £50 billion ($84 billion) on ’saving’ us all from sure doom. Makes you worry just how much money is going to be blown around the globe. Now that’s REALLY scary.

   Thanks for commenting, Fran. Have a great weekend,
   Steve

3. # Bud Blakemoreon 10 Oct 2008 at 7:40 am

   Well, Steve very profound. I remember once an old alcoholic friend said, “If nothing changes; then, nothing changes”.
   I guess this is a project in cash flow. Taxes from the working man to the gov’t. Then on to corporations and CEOs that are tax exempt. Toss in a little something like $700bil. and there’s enough left for a little (?) kick-back for the politicians that created this mess. I guess you could call it ‘trickle up’ economics.

4. # kim son 10 Oct 2008 at 10:07 am

   But it’s not just American’s tax monies which are being used, is it Steve?
   I was wondering why Gordie was in Washington before the bailout plan was voted in, why was he so adamant that it had to be passed?
   The only reason I can see it was to encourage the vote so it set a precedent and he could then return to the UK to enact a similar rescue plan using British tax monies.
   It’s not enough that Merrill Lynch recently avoided paying taxes here in the UK, citing their losses world-wide to avoid the tax. Tax monies which may have helped in the rescue? How many other international companies slip through the same loop-hole Merrill Lynch did? Meanwhile, the tax payers monies are being used to support a system which is corrupt and favours the wealthy only.
   My suggestion and I realise it’s a stretch, is that all international conglomerates which do business within a country are responsible for the bailout of said country. No more huge paychecks for the bigwigs, no more ducking taxes using world-wide loss figures! Either pay or no trade is allowed.
   It’s past time for these huge entities to give back to the system they’ve so cleverly manipulated for their profit.
   I won’t even go into the latest news here in the UK about council monies being invested OUTSIDE of the UK! St00pid and short-sighted and apparently backed by the govt! :O

5. # Steve N. Leeon 10 Oct 2008 at 10:39 am

   Yes, I’ve mentioned the UK’s £50 billion rescue plan. Now there’s the billion or so that may be lost after investing in, if I recall correctly, Iceland. Appalling, isn’t it?

   And of course I agree with you wholeheartedly - there are way too many bloated corporations sponging off the state and tax payer by manipulating the system and finding loopholes. Or, let’s face it, simply buying people off so they look the other way.

   Accountability is a dirty word. (Unless it’s the authorities forcing it upon the likes of you and me, of course.) The problem is that with the present Western mindset, corporations have so much money and influence, nothing’s ever going to change as they’ll just ‘buy’ whatever they want.

   Maybe this bailout will actually awaken people to just how screwed we truly are buy these companies and people. It’s long overdue!

   Thanks for furthering the discussion, Kim. Have a great weekend.

   Thanks to you too, Bud. We do need a catalyst, or, as you say, nothing will ever change. Thanks for commenting.

   Steve

6. # kim son 10 Oct 2008 at 4:11 pm

   BUY-IN NOT BAILOUT - GLOBAL PUBLIC RESCUE

   A financial meltdown is threatening economies around the world. We need to move fast and fix the underlying problems — instead of copying the US bailouts, which benefit reckless financiers most.

   Economists and citizens everywhere are raising their voices for a better way: a coordinated global rescue package — investing in a better future, beginning with public buy-ins not bailouts (that’s getting public stakes in the banks for our money, and the power to fix the wider system). We’ll deliver our call for a global public rescue at the end of this week to G7 finance ministers, and again to a bigger Global Summit planned for November — please sign the petition below now:

   http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue/?cl=135958601&v=2269

7. # Bonnieon 11 Oct 2008 at 4:04 pm

   Well done Steve, as usual. The reported doom and gloom since not handing out the $700, to the bankers was announced, has dominated every media assault we are all subjected to.

   Of course this decline in the economy was predicted, starvation of peoples, crop failures, natural disasters…all of it prophesied…as is the equally terrifying election process going on right now.

   The West reaped their rewards, became increasingly powerful at the expense of those hard working middle class indiviudals who attempt to cut out of their meager earnings enough to feed, clothe and keep a roof over their heads. Then their are the lower classes who work 2 or 3 jobs, must decide do they buy food or pay rent this month. Course the fat cats in their comfy leather chairs sit behind their mahogany desks and are self righteously oblivious to the plight of those citizens that they fleece with outrageous bank service charges and fees.

   The old adage, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer still applies. How about recouping those high payouts to the so called experts and geniuses who made the poor decisions and adding their income back into the $700, …means more money returned to those who actually work for a living…..

   Too bad that will never happen. Good going Steve!

8. # Wai Minon 12 Oct 2008 at 7:55 am

   Hello Steve,

   What can I say?

   Good post!

   Maybe you should write a new book entitled If Only…

   And make sure it does get published in Malaysia too, so i can get it!

   Keep writing.

   Keep spreading your love.

   Cheers,

   Wai Min

9. # Steve N. Leeon 12 Oct 2008 at 12:22 pm

   If only…, huh? Thanks for making me smile, Wai Min.

   Thanks for dropping by again. Glad you liked the post.

   Fixing the system is going to be a monumental task - good luck with that, Kim. I’ll keep pluging away from here to raise awareness of these issues, you can be sure of that.

   Bonnie, yes, it’s obscene the money these bankers have made while making such catastrophic decisions. For years banks have been rolling in money, making obscene profits by forcing obscene charges no customers - how quickly they come crying the poor tale, now. As I said, accountability appears to be a dirty word. So we’ll just let the poor go on deciding whether to buy food or pay the gas bill this week, and the starving go on dying. Yep, that’s sound fiscal policy!

   Thanks for commenting, Bonnie.

   Thanks eveyone. Hope you’re having a good weekend,
   Steve

10. # Ericon 12 Oct 2008 at 6:52 pm

    well the trouble with giving every one $1,000 dollars is we have tried it an it has not worked, The trouble is our economy is now the worlds largest gambling den we have to risk our retirement future on a market that is burdonsome to enter I mean how many really have $5,000 dollars to put toward a mutual fund or just $500 to an IRA I don’t I am luck if I have $2 dollars at the end of the week my honest hope is that the dow drops to 900 and everyone gives up on the Reagan Revolution that put us on this path to dispare.
    I thought he might suggest giving everyone in america a check for the amount of the bailout but that would cause hyper inflation. I have a different Idea how about a voluntary check off on your tax return you pay higher taxes and they use the money collected to pay off your debt with two stipulations one you cannot get any credit no pay day loans, no new credit cards, no new debt, 2nd you attend a regular class on budgeting and living within your means I think that might be better way to deal with the current crisis than giving banks that made bad decision money.

    also because of corruption in the third world add to that bandits on the roads the money would never make it.

11. # How Kuffon 13 Oct 2008 at 5:33 am

    i believe that what this wealthy-perpetuated global economic mess will accomplish, is to concentrate the wealth into the hands of even fewer. the massively wealthy can weather any of these economic storms. and in the end there will be fewer players in the game.

    free enterprise dies as the competing capitalist entities get extremely large. i call this mega-capitalism (walmart) and it leads to the loss of choice, and the loss of freedom.

    social constraints are the only means of preventing the inevitable in a world gone wild on economics. that means that the governments of the world must take action to extricate short-term economics from their political and social agendas.

12. # Elainnaon 13 Oct 2008 at 9:02 am

    About six months ago, a Noble prize winner in economics pointed out that the fiscal policies of the Bush administration would bring about a severe recession. I wish I could remember his name, but here is the gist of his and other economists warnings.

    First the war in Iraq is a deficit war and about half of it is financed by foreign countries. Among them Iran, China, and most of the oil countries. The USA will probably end up paying over 3 Trillion dollars for it. On top of this, instead of asking Americans to sacrifice for the war, such as pay a war tax, invest in war bonds and tighten their belts, the Administration actually cut the taxes for corporate America and the rich!

    War can be a nifty investment
    as long as a country is not running a deficit while engaging in it.
    As it is only 2 groups have actually made a profit from the war in Iraq, government contractors and the oil companies.

    Its going to be a long, long time before we get out of this recession and straighten out the current state of affairs!

13. # Steve N. Leeon 13 Oct 2008 at 9:24 am

    In passing, I mentioned the corruption in the Third World, Eric. That’s always been a problem and will continue to be so until someone addresses it properly.

    Being British I’m afraid I can’t comment on mutual funds or IRAs. Also, this post was purely fantasy. The logistics in doing what I suggest would be horrendous. And the costs of seeing such a project through would be astronomical - though, tiny by comparison to said $700 billion! It was merely a way for us to see the ‘bigger picture’. Bush is blowing all this cash, possibly unnecessarily, while nearly half the world is starving and that money WOULD save them. That was the point, not to propose a legitimate course of action as there would be far more to it than simply mailing out a few cheques.

    While I commend your idea to make people take responsibility for their lives - no credit and going to classes - I do wonder if they’d actually attend and even if they did, would they learn or just go through the motions for the sake of some monetary benefit? Then there would be those who’d simply ignore this and option and jump at the chance of a loan, just as they do now. Also, all that would involve a staggering cost, I’m sure. I would’ve thought it was far easier to impose restrictions on lenders and fine them for abuse. Money management should be taught at home or in school, once people are in debt it’s a little too late. Let’s face it, we all know who’s to blame - the banks for being greedy and the government for letting them get away with it.

    Thanks for introducing another element to the conversation, Eric.

    You’re right, How Kuff - it will just consolidate all the wealth in the hands of the super-rich.

    I’ve talked before, and argued with some commenters, about the free market and need for more government regulation as corporations will not hold themselves accountable and care only for satiating their greed.

    Yes, we need some honest, intelligent, humanitarian leaders to take charge of the global economy and bring it into line with what the world really needs. And therein lies the problem. Where the hell do we find honest, intelligent, humanitarian, leaders?

    Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

    Thanks, Elainna, that’s a good point. I wasn’t aware of this Nobel winner, but I have read of respected economists dismissing the bailout as needless and probably doomed to fail (I did mention that above in passing, but didn’t have room to expand).

    It’s amazing how it’s always the little guy who gets to foot the bill, isn’t it? God forbid we should tax corporations. Especially those who produce military hardware!

    As I said, though, it isn’t just the U.S. that’s in this mess. Britain is talking about a £50 billion bailout plan, which I believe is going to cost every tax payer around £2000 ($3600). Nice. The banks cause all this trouble through sheer incompetence, those responsible walk away with enormous payouts, and we foot the bill. Terrific.

    Yes, it’s going to be a long, cold winter for quite some time, isn’t it.

    Thanks for making an excellent point, Elainna,
    Steve

14. # How Kuffon 13 Oct 2008 at 5:19 pm

    Steve, I don’t think that good leaders are enough to ‘fix’ the situation. The problem is that we have appointed Economics as the God of national and world affairs. Corporations work on short-term profits. If they don’t, they generally don’t survive. That is the nature of the game.

    Governments and their leaders (elected or not) capitulate to the jobs and taxes and paybacks that come from the Economic entities. And the politicians must play the game of power to remain as politicians. And playing with power ultimately leads to compromise and corruption.

    To prevent situations like this global economic wealth grab, we need to bring our governments to re-prioritize their agendas. We need to make clean water, clean air, food, shelter, clothing and communication infrastructure as our most important action items. It is the elevation of Economics to the Prime Factor and the unrestrained conditions of a Free Marketplace that has ceased to be ‘Free’ that continues to waste our beautiful world and our amazing potential for human creativity and awareness.

    I do think there are plenty of good leaders hidden in the flock. The problem is in the immense capabilities of the entities and systems of power to maintain and increase their power… often accomplished by keeping us in our place as dedicated workers and consumers. I do think we will truly need those leaders to create communication and infrastructure that work ‘around’ the existing infrastructure (which is controlled by the entities whose power we wish to limit). And I do think this will and must occur on a global basis. We are all One. Our problems and their solutions are global. We are all first and foremost World Citizens. http://www.changing-history.com

15. # Sandyon 13 Oct 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Has anyone noticed the socialist tone we have been getting from our political masterminds? Keep in mind that over overwhelmingly Americans were against the bail out. The uproar against the plan melted several phone systems and congressional web sites.

    Did it matter? No, not one bit.

    So I guess we should have taken notice of the roar coming from main street fell on deaf ears in Washington.

    I would really like to know what was said to Congress to make them rush through this unpopular bill.

    They were probably told that they would no longer get paid vacations, tickets to the super bowl, etc. if they did not cooperate.

    I think we (all the world) need to take help each other and forget Washington. Those morons could not find their way home without the limo driver.

    Such a shame… and we feel so used!

16. # Steve N. Leeon 14 Oct 2008 at 9:36 am

    Thanks for calling back, How Kuff.

    Hey, I couldn’t agree with you more! (Don’t worry, when I talked of leaders and said ‘honest, intelligent, humanitarian leaders’, that was exactly what I meant, not merely someone who spoke a little greener than the other guy or who looked ‘really sad’ at news reports of starving Ethiopians.) Sorry, it’s my fault - I always assume people have read more of my posts than they usually have so don’t explain myself fully for fear of repeating myself and boring readers.

    Greed, corruption, incompetence - yep, the world is full of it. As are most politicians and corporations (’full of it’ in more ways than one, too!) It’s a total shift in mindset we’re talking about. And that’s the problem - how to wean those with all the power off money and greed.

    If you haven’t already, you might like to check out these posts:

    http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/09/11/oil/
    http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/09/04/rich/
    http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/08/28/snow/

    I’m sure you’ll find them entertaining and thought-provoking.

    Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts, which I’m sure most of my readers will appreciate.

    Used? Yep, that’s one thing we feel. Not to mention, conned, embarassed, ashamed, appalled, disgusted…

    Yes, Sandy, it’s hard to believe that these people have our best interests at heart, isn’t it? That they ‘represent’ us? They obviously use a very different dictionary!

    Yet they’ve got away with it!

    Again.

    When are enough people going to wake up to what’s going on and demand that something is done about it? It’s a pity November isn’t going to give Americans much of an option to register their dissatisfaction. (This is a nice idea, but impractical because it relies on people having the courage to see it through.)

    http://www.lionsledbysheep.com/2008/05/08/lazy/

    Thanks, Sandy.

    Steve

17. # Kathy Thompsonon 18 Oct 2008 at 5:06 pm

    For Sandy, here is an answer for your question “what was said to Congress….”http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_15028.cfm
    Can’t tell you how true it all is, but in light of all that I’ve seen as well as what I learned from my parents who did not use credit for anything, toss in the Zeitgeist movies, 5 parts on the Federal Reserve Bank and what I learned in High School Civics, my opinion is, probably all true. Not all rosy and happy, and if we don’t get it together quickly, we’re all screwed!
    I don’t believe our upcoming election holds any promise for us either….

18. # Heidi M.on 19 Oct 2008 at 4:14 am

    Actually, my congressman wrote me a very lengthy e-mail explaining what was wrong with the first bailout plan, which in essence just handed Bush the $700 billion to give out freely. The plan that was voted in has a LOT of regulations in it, including the fact that the entire $700 billion isn’t being given to anyone. The plan said that the first installment of $350 billion (still an astronomical figure) will be used. After that, money will be released up to $250 billion will be used only if Congress votes to approve it, and that will only be if the companies involved can show that they’ve tried everything else and still can’t pull out.

    AIG, one of the companies bailed out, is now being taken to court by the state of New York because they did with the money exactly what the bailout bill told them not to do. The company failed, but executives were still given bonuses and top level employees were treated to very expensive vacations. My congressman also said that he really didn’t want to sign the bill, but not doing so would have sent the country into a Depression. I still wonder if that would have made any difference to me.

    As for me, I think it would be interesting to see these high level bankers do some work for a change. Real work. Now, everyone who actually does the real work knows that the people who do the work and make it possible for the company to earn money are the ones who earn the least. I think the bailout should have also stated that banking and finance executives would have to live on minimum wage for a minimum of one year as a penalty for being stupid and running their companies into financial ruin. Make them do the day to day work. Have them wonder if they can keep a roof over their heads, feed their kids, take care of their health and work at a thankless company who doesn’t care if they don’t have enough. All the while wondering if the idiots on Wall St. and in Washington DC are screwing up their pensions. Now, that would be justice.

19. # Steve N. Leeon 25 Oct 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Kathy, I know what you mean about the forthcoming election - many people have told me how upset they are with the choices on offer and many have said they’re not going to even bother voting.

    Yes, a return to the days of living within your means would work wonders for the world. Pity it’s never going to happen.

    I love your ‘living on minimum wage for a year’, Heidi. Oh, if only! But, yeah, that’s the worst of it. Some many of these morons who got us into this mess are just going to walk away scot free. And with a hefty sum of money in their pockets! It kills me. It really does. And, you’re right - very, very few of them know what a decent day’s work involves.

    Thanks stopping by and sharing your thoughts, both of you.
    Steve

20. # Fortunalon 17 Jan 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Hello Steve,
    Amazing….scaring…WONDERFULL OBSERVATION !
    Thanks for made me thinking.
    What do you think about movie
    ”ZEITGEIST” /part 1 and part 2-Adendum/, and what do you think about Project ”VENUS” ?
    Rgds.
    Fortunal

21. # Steve N. Leeon 21 Jan 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Glad you liked it, Fortunal.

    I’m afraid I haven’t seen those movies. Over Christmas, I did see Michael Moore’s ‘Sicko’ which explores America’s health service and compares it to those of Britain, France, Canada, etc. That was quite funny, informative, and sad. The British system isn’t perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the one the US has to put up with.

    Thanks for commenting,
    Steve

22. # Fortunal Rajnaon 21 Jan 2009 at 4:24 pm

    ,,Beleive nothing,no matter where you read it,or who said it,no matter if I have said it,unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense…,,
    -Buddha

    I agree with this !

    I find your writings sensible…thanks.

23. # Steve N. Leeon 22 Jan 2009 at 11:26 am

    That’s a good quote and a great philosophy on life, Fortunal.

    I would add a caveat, though - ‘remain open to new possibilities’. Without that, you risk isolating yourself from new knowledge and experiences, and becoming dogmatic or just plain pig-headed in your dealings with the rest of the world - and we all know there are enough of those types of people around, don’t we!?

    Thanks for adding further to the conversation.
    Steve

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